"I feel like that is where the painting gets interesting. Within the mistakes."

ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: Hi Noa.  Please, in your own words, can you tell us a bit about you and what inspired you to become an artist?

I am 29 now, I finished art school 3 years ago, I studied in Israel in Shenkar (Shenkar Multidisciplinary Art School ), where I received my B.F.A, I grew up in a religious household, went to a religious school, Jewish -obviously, so it's funny, growing up that religious and turning out like this. But my mum is the most supportive person on this planet, so that makes a lot of sense. My parents got divorced when I was really young, and I kind of ended upgrowing up with my mum eventually. She actually used to be a stained-glass artist, more on the craft end of it, making custom pieces for her customers, but I grew up in her studio which was very influential. I didn't see it at that moment, only afterwards did I see how much it validated my choice and work. She encouraged me to go to school as well. I was so far off the deep end, I finished high school, I got really depressed...like not in a conscious way, like years later I look back at it and think, oh that was bad. It just ended up being kind of drug and alcoholy kind of times, till I went back to school and got my head straight. Yeah, and since school things have been great! I have had a tonne of shows since I graduated, I got picked up really early, my grad school was very successful luckily, I got signed by one of the biggest galleries in the country (Rosenfeld Gallery) less than a year later.

Rosenfeld Gallery is actually one of the oldest galleries in the country, if not the oldest, almost as old as this country. It was founded by the owners' father, and I think most of the best Israeli artists have been through or are still represented by them. It's funny because they are an older gallery, and the owner is in his late 60s but he really has a good eye for younger artists and also artists who are very edgy. A lot of artists that are controversial and there's a conversation to have. I think because his fathers' gallery was not as contemporary, more traditional as they were in the 60's,more like shops with landscape paintings, and in the early 90's he shifted it to be a contemporary gallery he really went for it!  He took on people who were really pushing bold ideas and it's an honour actually! Because I remember going there as a student and being like, woah, this place!

I had shows here and internationally. Probably over 30 already, I'd say at least 10 a year. A lot was thanks to the internet actually, I was very Instagram popular, because I'm very pushy on the platform.

I remember being made fun of for being very online present in my last year of school, and everyone was like: "stop wasting your time posting shit" and I would say, you know, it's a global community, even if I make the best work how will it get seen, if I post online, someone like Jerry Saltz could end up seeing it.

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You know, like, people have their phones with them in the toilet all the time, you're missing out. So that really helped me actually, not taking social media for granted, but also being smart about it, not posting random stuff, but keeping it very business oriented.

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So yeah, I've been busy, I've been lucky, I've been smart, it's a mix of all of it.

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Now I'm applying to get my second degree, I've applied only to schools in the States (USA), so I will be leaving Israel, which kind of sucks, because yesterday I got my first letter that I passed the first two stages, and I'm like, that means I have to leave in 6 months, you know, that's terrifying, it's on the other side of the world. But I actually lived in NewYork, I was in Brooklyn for a while, and I have artist friends that I am still in touch with, and they are great. So I am looking forward to it, I am also just kind of freaked out about it, excitement but also stress. I also had a few shows in the States already, so I'm hoping that will generate more as well.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: Tell us a bit about your artwork? You mentioned how Rosenfeld Gallery is focused on bolder work, how do you think your work sits within that?

Well it definitely fits in, because my themes are, you know, pushy. I wouldn't say they are inappropriate, but they are definitely not your everyday kind of works. I get that criticism a lot, especially from galleries that give me shows, and want to sell the work, and they say, "You know your work is great but it's very eh, heavy" and I mean, I don't see it as heavy. But I guess it is. And they will say things like, "You know, the imagery is hard, or not everyone wants it in their home". It's not an easy image to live with, and I get that, you know some of it is violent, some of it is depressing, and I don't see it because I think I use a lot of comedy in what I do. So I think it masks it well, but there are people who think that. I think most people who are more into a calmer scene and approach to painting, and that's fine.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: Where do your themes and ideas come from? Why do you feel you're attracted to let's say less calm imagery?

I don't know, I mean I know how it happens, but I don't know why. I'm just drawing, coming up with ideas and I'll think: oh my god it would be so funny if this guy is just bashing someone's head in with a chair.

And that's something that can happen here, you know I will see something on the news: "Guy gets out of a car, stabs a person for beeping at them" - funny, like not a haha funny but ridiculous, why would anyone do that kind of funny. You know? So sometimes I will make light of the news, or just general Israeli anger, which is very common here. We are very heated people. So I try to talk about that with my work.

I mean we are very heated people, so everything here is very hyped up and saturated. We are very dramatic people, so the work is usually dramatic. I have had attempts to draw more, I wouldn't say peaceful, I want to say like more kitschy more affectionate themes, and it always turned out horrifying, I have thrown out a few works like that angrily, it just doesn't work. I start and then it looks like someone is being sarcastic about it. So I'm just like, fine.

And also I think I am just very drawn to early renaissance art, I find that fascinating, like depictions of war, archery, you know gory stuff, and even earlier art with all these depictions of hell with all these daemons that people painted all over churches. And I mean that's fun., because you know painting has no boundaries. Why should I do something that's chilled? If I can do something, at least I can do something that is crazy.

There is a sense of sarcasm, I do know artists that don't, but I feel that most good artists have a very strong bleed of their personality into their work. It's hard to do things that go against your character. That is why I am always scared of people who do still life work. Like what is happening in their head? Why are they okay with this bag of fruit?

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: And it sounds like your work is a reflection of your life and your experiences?

Yeah for sure, I mean walking to my studio, ten minutes away,I live in the south side of Tel Aviv, which is being gentrified, but I would not say it's a chilled area yet. And I have all these dumb ass interactions on the way. Older guys, random taxi drivers just yelling out the cab at you, and I just tell myself, I am going to just turn this into some good work and not get annoyed at it. Because I am also not angry about it, I am more like, confused about it. IF someone yells out sexual remarks about my body, from a person whois older than my dad on the street, what I am curious about is, what do they think is going to happen? Do they think that I am gonna be charmed by it, do they think this is going to lead us to this happily ever after or do they just want my attention for shits and giggles, I'm just curious? What is happening in their head? Are they like - I am gonna yell at this girl, that she has nice legs, hopefully she can see past the fact that I am like a chubby, bald, 60 year old man, and she will like you know (suck me off*) get off with me in the bushes? You know, I don't know, maybe that's what they're thinking. I mean I know it's a no from me, but you know, can't stop the man from dreaming.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: ..

I know..I have very funny thoughts, usually demented thoughts and then...then it works out.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: So that's your general source of inspiration.

Yeah. Sometimes I try to put it into writing, for when I have meetings with curators for example, and I don't know how to explain to them howI manifest these thoughts or ideas, because they just randomly come to me.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: It seems from what you're saying, a lot of these thoughts do make it to canvas?

Oh for sure. A lot of it makes it to drawings. I draw a lot. I don't share a lot of my drawings online. But I draw a lot. I would say I'm more prone to drawing than painting, and also when I paint I think it's more obvious that it comes from drawing. I am trying to push myself to be more of a painter these days, and get into, you know, the strokes, and colour and the way I apply it, more than I used to, because I used to be more about banging out the idea. And there would just be coloured areas as long as I understand what it is. So these days I'm trying to be more into the material and really give a lot of my attention to "the how" and not just "the what". Because I used to think that just the bottom line was important and now I think they are equally important. It's maturing, within my practice, I guess.

So, I draw a lot, and you can definitely see that a lot of my thoughts are expressed in the line work. I just sit around, think about stuff, or even see memes, a lot of my work is meme based. I had a painting I did recently, I think it was 12 or 13guys, all dressed in blue tracksuits looking forward. And it was a meme that a friend sent me. It didn't look exactly like it, but it was roughly the same image. A group of Israeli guys, in their late teens - early twenties, and they were a group of dudes smoking cigarettes, and it says, on the text part, "When the promoter tells you that the party is going to be full of great people". And it's all these like sketchy looking dudes that have like "sexual harassment" written all over their head. I don't think it translates well, but in Hebrew they say "Beautiful people", "Anashim Rafin". It's supposed to be a visual assurance that there will be cool, fun people there, don't worry about it. But again, the irony is, as a person who parties, you know it's just going to be all dudes, all too young, no fun.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: Do you feel like that is your general process, consistently? Getting ideas from real life or memes, drawing them down and then selecting drawings to be translated into painting?

Definitely. Sometimes I will look at or have some references open as well, to understand lighting. But looking at or creating a digital photographic composition really compromises my work, in my opinion. I feel like the result is really not interesting.

Because I really translate a lot of the mistakes in my drawing into painting, like messing up the proportions, or having to cram things into the size of the page.

I feel like that is where the painting gets interesting. Within the mistakes.

A lot of times, because my drawings are small, it is like anA5 sketchbook about a postcard size, so sometimes I will scan them or print them in a cheap laser printer and just colour them in in markers, and just get an idea of if they will be interesting to translate. Because sometimes the drawings are very good on their own, and don't translate well into paintings. The negative space is what is interesting about it. You know? And in paintings, negative space doesn't really work.

Now I am experimenting with charcoal a bit, I might do some charcoal on canvas works, and see how it works out. I am really into it. Suddenly, I used to be against it, but now I am curious. Because I think it can translate the energy of the drawing, but not limit the size. With charcoal you can pull such long lines with it. It has this velocity that pencil can't give you, paint can, but paint doesn't translate lines as well. It will be interesting, we'll see.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: I would love to know more about other materials that you are exploring, I saw that you released a limited edition linoleum print recently, also I saw that you have made some great sculptures?

I went to a multidisciplinary school, I studied most mediums,I started painting before I went to school actually, it is the medium that I amthe most comfortable in and am most passionate about. But I also did a lot ofprintmaking, I also do sculpture sometimes. Right now I am working on asculpture for a show, for the Edmond de Rothschild Foundation.

I am very medium fluent, traditional medium, no digital, nophotography and definitely no performance art. But yeah, I love printmaking,drawing, sculpting, whenever I have the opportunity to show other things Idefinitely take it. Especially when I am doing a show that has a budget. So Ican actually work on something, sculpture-wise, because sculpting out of pocketcan cost a tonne. Especially if you want to make work and not worry if it willsell or not. Because sometimes you want to make a sculpture that does not haveany, you know, market value, or the option to be resold, which is totally fine.I don't think that the limitations of the art market should stop you from doingthings. I just need to find the timing and the right opportunity to you know,do it. Now I received this funding to make a piece inside a group show, and I am like, great, I have funding, I am going to sculpt.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: I noticed one with what seemed like a jockey stepping over rails for horse jumping?

Oh it was just a guy in a tracksuit actually. It was exactly a year ago, actually for the same place as this new one I am creating, the Edmond de Rothschild Foundation. They have a huge arts foundation in Israel. So I am doing new artwork for that. The one you mentioned is actually quite a 2dimensional piece, as far as sculpture goes. Like a two-dimensional, three-dimensional work. Almost like a cut out.

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But for this next show I am doing something different. Completely three-dimensional, so I am excited and looking forward to it. The title for the upcoming show is "What is God?", which I didn't love at first, but I thought okay, let's see what I can do with it.

So I am making a sculpture of a hand, kind of coming out of the ground and swiping through Tinder, gripping the phone, and the phone will be an oil painting of this very masculine character, and the arm will be a very, hyper-feminine, long nails, lots of pink. It will be this weird gender contrasting kind of work. I was thinking, if God is power, what is a greater power than just choosing your romantic/sexual partner from your couch, you know, in your underwear, with no makeup, you know? If you go out and want to meet a person, you have to put your good shirt on, and wash your face, haha. And here I can sit at home and be disgusting, and say to myself "no this guy isn't hot enough", you know, that's crazy, when you think about it in really lame terms.

I mean the basics of humanity, continuity, looking for a partner, to carry on our legacy, you know, we are animals. It's a primal need to find a mate and it used to be very difficult, I mean it still is difficult, just a different kind of difficult, but you used to have to have genuine human interaction for that. And now you can just sit on your couch, covered in Dorito crumbs, being hot shit. The person on the other side sees this great picture of you in a bikini on the beach but you're actually sitting on the couch, feeling like shit, bloated and ordering take-out. It's such a contrast, what you see and what is really there on the other side. Not even cat fishing, but the fact that you don't have to make any sort of effort.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: So tell me a bit about a few more pieces that you have done. The first pieces that I had seen from your work, were to do with the jockeys and the horses, I am interested in learning a bit more about that and what the ideas were behind those.

They definitely gave me my start, that was my theme, and then I kind of steered away from it, because everyone was like "Oh you're the girl with the horses" and I was like, "yes, that's me". But even before that I had some car racing. I was always looking to deal with very masculine themes, but with more of an analogy. The horses were always these place holders, to talk about something else. I think my most popular piece was this horse, getting loaded on crack, with the two people heating up the spoon, and it was the weird allegory about, it's nota male thing, but a real masculine need to win, or prove yourself. This very primal, manly drive, to win at all costs. Even if it means, you know, dosing an animal with enough drugs to kill it. Plus, it's just a funny image. It was just too good to ignore. It's funny, I saw on Peaky Blinders, one of the gipsies gives the horse cocaine. You know, like just shoves it up its nose to juice them up for races. And I googled it and it turns out it used to be a popular thing, horse doping. So they can place all their money on the right one, knowing they will win, or giving it this edge. So it was this mix of funny yet it had a point. I think since I got a lot of feedback that the work is very foreign, we don't have horse racing here, at all, so the comments I was getting was,"it's funny that you deal with such foreign themes, your work looks very foreign". So I thought, okay, let me try to bring it home a little more. I kept the horses and the jockeys kind of shifted away to being more average looking people. And then I had my second solo show last year, which was my biggest show so far. I exhibited all these very run-of-the-mill Israeli guys, like people who worked in a bodega, a barber and two guys beating each other up in the back of a parking lot. I feel like it was very much, this is what I'm thinking, this is what I want to talk about, I'm just going to put it in front of you and we'll deal with it.

So now I'm really looking for a way to bring it all together again. We'll see. It is a theme that I want to bring back, I just don't exactly know how to do it. I felt that when I was starting to shift away from it it wasn't only because I felt I was being put in a box. But also because I felt a bit trapped within the theme. I felt like I was always stuck inside this metaphor and that it had its limitations. And I was frustrated. My day was"okay horse doing this, person and horse doing that" , it felt too easy. And I am sure I pissed off a few people and a few collectors but, they'll deal with it. It's part of the experience of actually having to deal with human artists. Maybe AI will take over one day and they won't have those problems.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: Yeah, people are strange, and that's why...you paint them.

It's fun, I love it. I hope people keep being strange, stupid, irresponsible jackasses. Because it's great for me.I also stand behind bad parenting...just all of it, just keep the cycle of terrible going. Great! It would be really boring if our parents weren't f***ing us up.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: It really seems though that your work is focused on topics that maybe a lot of artists would shy away from, about real life really, and from talking to you, it is also just your daily experiences. Like for example with the piece of the guy playing with the knife between his fingers, that maybe a lot of people grew up around idiots who would do stuff like that.

Oh for sure, I grew up with idiots who would do stuff like that. All the stuff that I draw is stuff that I have seen happen. People ask, "do you really see such violence?" and I am like yeah, I've been living in nightlife, clubbing areas, you know I've seen people beat the crap out of each other over parking, I've seen someone kick someone's nose in, you know gay-bashing outside of a club. And I am not saying it as a positive thing, that I have seen that, I am just saying, it is part of the human experience.

Bottom line, we are still primal idiots, we just have goodphones and the internet now.

And the art world likes to deal with these grand historicalthemes and I am like okay, lets deal with something a bit more human. You know,that someone off the street can view and enjoy it.

I felt like the art scene was self-segregating.

I don't know about it globally but I really felt that locally. Art was so up its own ass, dealing with itself, that people shied away from it. I remember talking to my friends who have nothing to do with art and I asked them to come to the show with me. They were like, I don't know anything about art, why would I come to that, I will be so uncomfortable. And that's sad, I don't think people should be made to feel uncomfortable viewing art. Art should be for everyone.

Even when I go to shows sometimes, I don't know what the show is going to be about, and I turn up and I say wow I have no idea what this artist wants from me. The art is very conceptual or dealing with this big philosophical questions...and I look at the work and it is just a load of lines and dots, and I am like you know what, F**k you. I feel dumb, I am not enjoying this. Again, it's just my opinion. I don't think it's not valid, I am just saying, we can't only have that. And I felt like there were few to no alternatives to it.

So a lot of my work was inspired from this desire and need for people to be able to relate or even see themselves in my work. And not be intimidated by it. I don't like the feeling that someone feels unworthy or embarrassed to view what I do. Shunning people away from culture is what makes people less cultured.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: I think that as you mentioned, your work might not be for everyone, but that also lets you reach the audience that you relate to and the audience you want for your work.

Yea, it might be selfish, but when I am creating do think, what do I want to see? What do I enjoy, what would I find interesting? If there is no joy in the process then it will probably turn out bad. It really needs to intrigue me on all levels, both the concept and the actual painting of it. I just did this painting of these two guys hugging each other and it's like this Ying-Yang kind of image, and you can flip it four ways. And I was just having fun with it, it was this weird gimmicky thing that turned out to be just really fun to make.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: So looking towards the future, any big projects coming up?

I would like to have another solo show here before I leave.Maybe in the summer. And I would love to have a show in the USA, as I know I have a strong following and a lot of interest there. But they have never seen the work physically, so they are hesitant. Because a lot of collectors don't want to buy work they just see online, and I can understand that. Some paintings are real cat fishy. I have seen some works on Instagram and on people's websites and I was amazed, and then I saw them in real life and I was like"oh, this is okay". Actually I have noticed that usually it is the opposite, like if it looks good in real life it might not photograph well and the other way round. With the exception of some really great painters that I am thinking of at the moment, but usually it does not photograph well. I feel likeI take really shit photographs of my work. And people see my work in real life and say it looks so much better in person. And that I should take better pictures. And I say "Yeah sorry, I just take pictures with my phone, you know, no editing." And then they call me dumb and I'm like"Yes..."

But when I can afford an assistant and someone who can come and do all the photography for me, perfect. But as it's just me, you're going to have to deal with it the way it is.

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ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: How do you balance the creative and business side of your studio practice?

I just try to compartmentalise things. I dedicate certain days or hours to certain things. Usually I will take my laptop with me to the studio and I will take my break in the middle of the day. Answer some emails, work on the computer, rest a bit and then start painting again. I write a lot of stuff down, I have a tonne of notes everywhere, with things like "don't forget to email so and so, apply to this, send an email of paintings to this person". It's a bit messy and sometimes I need to get reminders, and I definitely don't always answer on time but I answer. And I have learnt that I always need to check my spam. Yea some good stuff goes to spam.

It's hard, but it's not crazy, you just need to have a system. And eventually when you can afford it, some assistants don't hurt. You don't have to be the most successful artist on the planet to employ someone a few hours a week to help out.

I share my studio with two other artists, because I don't like being alone. I think being an artist can be quite lonely. And I am a very social person. Also working a lot with Bella and having someone in the background. I usually like it when someone is there, someone to talk to, another pair of eyes to see what you're doing. It's good sometimes, to put things into perspective. Sometimes there's a problem with the work and you look at it, and the other person is like, here. Okay great that's what I was thinking, thanks. And that's really helpful. Art making can be lonely but I think it has a very social aspect to it also. You know some artists forget that it is about getting to know people and it opens you up to new ideas. And it is another way to better yourself and your practice. There always used to be a conversation. The artists all knew each other and even now, all the really popular artists all know each other, they hang out together, go to the same shows or residencies and often end up in the same galleries. And it's good because the fact that they get to experience more of each other and their practices brings more to them. Like when I was thinking about how to create the sculpture I am working on I called Ally Rosenberg, a great sculptor and friend who I did a residency with in London. So I called him and we had a fun little video chat for an hour and we talked about ideas and options, and he gave me a little tour of his studio and I showed him what I was working on. It was so great.

In terms of marketing, Instagram plays a big role, I have had many great responses, shows, clients and other opportunities come from it. And you don't have to have a huge following or care about the likes, it's not about the numbers. But more about who is following you, and I am lucky to have fellow artists, collectors, and people who just genuinely appreciate your work. I have a small following, about 8000 followers, but I don't care about the numbers, just the people, we are not Tik-Toker's trying to sell hand lotion or something.

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Also face-to-face interactions are very important. I go to a lot of openings, not all of them, but the ones I am interested in. There's no point going to the ones that don't interest you and the people there can see you don't like the work so that's counterproductive.

A few months back I went to Art Week in Berlin, I convinced my friends and we went, which was good and fun. I got to see a lot of artists and gallerists, who knew my work but didn't know me and meeting them face-to-face was great. And I had two group shows happen because we met.

Also I put out a book a few months ago, SPAM, with my friend Isabella Volovnik, that sold out on the second day after we released it. It's funny because all my work deals with masculinity, and all her work deals with femininity and the perception of femininity and the female form. We did everything ourselves except for the actual printing. Putting it out there, and a lot of the right people saw it, this form of merchandise, good merchandise, like a book or a print, that more people can view. Making yourself accessible, it really helps. Because of that book we had two offers from curators, one locally and one abroad about doing a duo show in Mexico. You just have to keep creating these opportunities, and making yourself accessible and generally not being an asshole really. Putting out work that people can afford every so often. I know a lot of people don't have a lot of patience to make a book or a print, they'd rather focus their energy on making a big piece for a show, and obviously that is most of the work. But also just making accessible work that people who like you can afford and buy. Not everyone has $7000 to spare for a medium painting. I am not generally unaffordable, my work is not considered expensive at all for the art world, but it is expensive to an average person. You know I don't have $5000 laying around, I probably have priorities, I probably have to pay rent first. So it is just understanding that, you know, it's humanity. You need to be human...and talented and smart, and everything. It's a balancing act.

ARTCOLLECTORNEWS: Okay, I think we are just about ready to wrap things up, I just wanted to ask you, if there was any final advice you would like to give to aspiring artists?

Oh, wow, just, like Nike said, Just f***ing do it. Just do whatever and don't overthink it. I think that's the best advice I can give. And when I say don't overthink it I don't mean just put out stupid meaningless work, I mean, don't worry about the way it will be perceived. Do whatever feels right, whatever you find interesting, within the boundaries of common sense obviously. Do what feels right and if it's good it's good and if it blows, well, there are other jobs out there. It really just isn't for everyone and that's okay to know that as well.

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